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trailing or leading?

 
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Gazza



Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 78
Location: Durham,England

PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:03 pm    Post subject: trailing or leading? Reply with quote

i'm thinking of making my own chassis for the saluki, this will be in the future after rear wheel mods to vmax, well to keep this short, i personally think that trailing link would give a smoother suspension action, does this seem correct?
most performance sidecars seem to have short swinging arms with everything within the wheel, is this an advantage or just lack of available space?
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zentime



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 823
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 11:01 am    Post subject: Re: trailing or leading? Reply with quote

Gazza wrote:
i'm thinking of making my own chassis for the saluki, this will be in the future after rear wheel mods to vmax, well to keep this short, i personally think that trailing link would give a smoother suspension action, does this seem correct?
most performance sidecars seem to have short swinging arms with everything within the wheel, is this an advantage or just lack of available space?



From what I've seen, smoothness of ride can be achieved with either design. Within reason, the length of the swingarm is probably more a result of what will will work with any given design. A shorter swingarm can be more stout than a long one. Taken to the extreme, a very short swingarm will have more fore and aft movement than a long swingarm. Trailing and leading link swingarm are also a factor in the design of the body since shock mounting positions will be different and can effect the shape of the passenger compartment. The main reason I prefer the trailing arm is because with a leading swingarm, the sidecar can rise under breaking. Sidecar mounted on the right with a leading swingarm (pivot behind the wheel) you're hot in a right handed turn, you apply the brakes and the shock extends as the swingarm pivot tries to roll up and over the tire as LL forks do without floating calipers. I don't think anyone wants the sidecar chassis to rise in a hot right hander under breaking. From my experience, with heaver sidecars ridden moderately, it doesn't seem matter leading or trailing. Hope that helps.
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1973 MotoGuzzi V7sport

will August ever come............


Last edited by zentime on Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Gazza



Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 78
Location: Durham,England

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cheers for reply zentime,but for some reason it has been translated, it was english the first time i quickly read it, but now its in possibly aradic?
anyhow, i think that i will go with a trailing arm, the panel in front of sidecar wheel conceals an empty space(for mounting on opposite side of bike) am also considering having wheel arch altered so i can lower sidecar, suppose this is why i like sidecars lots of fun creating Very Happy
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zentime



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 823
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gazza wrote:
cheers for reply zentime,but for some reason it has been translated, it was english the first time i quickly read it, but now its in possibly aradic?
anyhow, i think that i will go with a trailing arm, the panel in front of sidecar wheel conceals an empty space(for mounting on opposite side of bike) am also considering having wheel arch altered so i can lower sidecar, suppose this is why i like sidecars lots of fun creating Very Happy


Glad you found the info helpful. I think you'll like the trailing arm.

Gazza wrote:
suppose this is why i like sidecars lots of fun creating
Laughing now there's an understatement!

Actually I think I translated it into Azerbaijani. I'll change it back to English tomorrow. I was just trying to get a response from anyone. I frequently answer technical questions here and in emails and often never get a reply back. I'm trying to decide if I should reply to technical questions anymore. It sometimes take a fair amount of time to answer some questions and when I don't hear back from the person that asked the question, I make the assumption that my reply wasn't helpful so they don't bother replying. Using that assumption, I'm not sure it makes any sense for me to reply to technical questions here or in emails.
_________________
CBR1100XX/EZS
1973 MotoGuzzi V7sport

will August ever come............
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Gazza



Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 78
Location: Durham,England

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i'll always reply mate, sometimes i ponder over comments, but no please reply to tech stuff, i was hoping to start a discussion with the original question any how
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zentime



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 823
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gazza wrote:
i'll always reply mate, sometimes i ponder over comments, but no please reply to tech stuff, i was hoping to start a discussion with the original question any how


fixed Wink keep the pictures coming of your progress, sidecar projects are a great contribution to the forum Big Grin
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CBR1100XX/EZS
1973 MotoGuzzi V7sport

will August ever come............
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arbalest



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 92
Location: Windham

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:24 pm    Post subject: advice Reply with quote

Zentime,

You have been a great help to me while trying to get my project off the ground. I have pored over your Blackbird photos, and pestered you with questions. I am glad I met you at the Vermont rally. My project is moving slowly, but moving ahead, just the same. My early K100 driveshaft is off to Bruno's in Ontario, having a new ujoint and R bike front yoke installed. The K bike swingarm has already been modified to fit the R50/5. Next is the rear wheel adapter. I am scouting for a 15" wheel with a 2" or 3" backspacing. This will make the adapter more structurally suited to the task. I am uncomfortable using a 6" wide wheel (true overall width around 7") with a 35mm off set. The adapter would be almost 7" long, held on to the final drive by the stock BMW bolts, then the wheel bolted to the end of the adapter. I just don't like the thought of that load catilevered out that far. I have my front wheel, spindle, and ball joints modeled in Solidworks (that is my day job). I am working on the control arms and steering design tonight, as we speak. When I have something to show you, I will post pictures.

Mike Lydon
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docmike



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 630
Location: Eastern NC

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Actually I think I translated it into Azerbaijani


Good, I was starting to think we've been hacked again.

I can't sign on at work anymore, it says the site has malware and has been blocked, so I've been worried.

Mike
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Mike Currin
93 BMW K1100RS / EML Speed 2000
89 Honda GB 500 (6,700 miles, all original except tires)
67 Triumph 650 chopper
92 Suzuki GS500 (eldest son)
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Gazza



Joined: 29 Jun 2010
Posts: 78
Location: Durham,England

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zentime wrote:
keep the pictures coming of your progress,


yeah will post pics, but at moment i am pondering how to fit a car wheel into vmax swinging arm, keep coming back to a singlesided design, be quite unique, but may take some time
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zentime



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 823
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:54 pm    Post subject: Re: advice Reply with quote

arbalest wrote:
Zentime,

You have been a great help to me while trying to get my project off the ground. I have pored over your Blackbird photos, and pestered you with questions. I am glad I met you at the Vermont rally. My project is moving slowly, but moving ahead, just the same. My early K100 driveshaft is off to Bruno's in Ontario, having a new ujoint and R bike front yoke installed. The K bike swingarm has already been modified to fit the R50/5. Next is the rear wheel adapter. I am scouting for a 15" wheel with a 2" or 3" backspacing. This will make the adapter more structurally suited to the task. I am uncomfortable using a 6" wide wheel (true overall width around 7") with a 35mm off set. The adapter would be almost 7" long, held on to the final drive by the stock BMW bolts, then the wheel bolted to the end of the adapter. I just don't like the thought of that load catilevered out that far. I have my front wheel, spindle, and ball joints modeled in Solidworks (that is my day job). I am working on the control arms and steering design tonight, as we speak. When I have something to show you, I will post pictures.

Mike Lydon


Hey Mike, good to hear from you. look forward to seeing some hardware. Very Happy
_________________
CBR1100XX/EZS
1973 MotoGuzzi V7sport

will August ever come............
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