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sidecar wheel lead

 
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arbalest



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 92
Location: Windham

PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:45 am    Post subject: sidecar wheel lead Reply with quote

My chs project is about to get started. I need a ballpark for where to put the sidecar wheel. How much lead is enough, how much is too much? Some basics; 15" wheels, 195 tires, true chs. How about track? How wide is too wide? The tug is assumed to have a 60 inch wheelbase.

thanks,

Mike Lydon
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zentime



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 833
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: sidecar wheel lead Reply with quote

arbalest wrote:
My chs project is about to get started. I need a ballpark for where to put the sidecar wheel. How much lead is enough, how much is too much? Some basics; 15" wheels, 195 tires, true chs. How about track? How wide is too wide? The tug is assumed to have a 60 inch wheelbase.

thanks,

Mike Lydon


Mike, I just took some rough measurements on my Blackbird. The track width is about 51" and the wheel lead is about 14". There are always mechanical constraints when building this stuff but I guess I would try to keep the track width between 50 and 55 inches and the lead in 14 to 18 inch range.
So what are you using for a bike? Have you made any of the CHS parts yet? Any pictures?

bill
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arbalest



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 92
Location: Windham

PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:54 pm    Post subject: sidecar wheel lead Reply with quote

Bill, no hard parts yet. Hard parts should start in the next couple of weeks. I am kind of in a quandary over the tug. I have the opportunity to get a 79 Goldwing at a firesale price, but would rather use a K100. If my current rig sells (an interested party is looking at it on Monday), I will have to make a decision on the tug. The chs is going to be an "A" arm system similar to the Mobec (Germany) system. If you check out the Mobec website, check the "Easy Steer" sidecar frame. That is my model. I am planning on using a Chang or Ural tub for the sidecar. The spindle is based on a late GM Cavalier/Cobalt/Impala wheel/hub with a 5 x 100mm bolt pattern. I have a set of aftermarket 15 x 7 wheels. Tire size currently on the wheels is 205/60. Are you measuring the track from outside to outside, or center to center?

Thanks,

Mike Lydon
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zentime



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 833
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The track width measurement is center to center. I have seen the Mobec conversion. Obviously a lot of thought was put into the design and excellent workmanship.
Best of luck with the project. Look forward to seeing progress pictures.

bill
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arbalest



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 92
Location: Windham

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:23 am    Post subject: brakes and ball joints Reply with quote

Bill, are you running an automotive disc or a motorcycle disc on your front wheel? What are you using for calipers and master cylinder? Also, what are you using for ball joints?

Thanks,

Mike Lydon
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zentime



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 833
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: brakes and ball joints Reply with quote

arbalest wrote:
Bill, are you running an automotive disc or a motorcycle disc on your front wheel? What are you using for calipers and master cylinder? Also, what are you using for ball joints?

Thanks,

Mike Lydon


Mike, Iím frequently asked these types of question and Iím always reluctant to say we used this or that in the various CHS designs weíve built. Itís a very complex endeavor. Done properly, it can be very rewarding. Done wrong, the results can be unsatisfying and dangerous. When designing our CHS, I think it would be fair to say we take a Top Down Design approach. Itís a total design concept from the beginning where the sum of the parts equal the whole and where the many of the individual parts are unique to our design and irrelevant to a different design and possible an unsafe part for a different design. What off the shelf parts we do use in our design work with our design because of the engineering that went into the implementation of that part. In some cases the off the shelf parts are modified to adapt them to our needs. Most all of the individual components in our CHS conversion represent a total system for the conversion and are proprietary and unique to our design. There are over 60 individual 3d solid models and drawing representing hundreds and hundreds of hours of design and drawing time for our current conversions.

On everything weíve done, weíve used the OEM calipers and master cylinder. We do use automotive ball joints and brake rotors but at the end of the day, you need to make the decision on what you should use based on what youíre designing. Your design should drive the components you use.

Some resourse suggestions. For brake rotors, we use the Brembo web site as reference to find brake rotors of various dimensions. I walk through salvage yards, look through catalogs and look in our local parts store for ball joints, tie rod ends, bushings etc. http://www.mcmaster.com is another great resource on the web for bushing bearing and miscellaneous hardware.

I would also take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-down Itís a good look at different approaches to designing.

I hope this information helps and I hope youíll keep the forum updated on your progress. I wish there were more people out there like yourself willing to think outside the box!Laughing

ps..........please don't use this much wheel leed! Laughing

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160317315017&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:MOTORS:1123
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Paul



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 182
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: brakes and ball joints Reply with quote

zentime wrote:
ps..........please don't use this much wheel leed!




Does he realize he's got the sidecar frame MOUNTED ON THE WRONG SIDE???
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thinking
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
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2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
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Dar



Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 344
Location: Ballston Spa, NY

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:44 am    Post subject: Re: brakes and ball joints Reply with quote

Paul wrote:




Does he realize he's got the sidecar frame MOUNTED ON THE WRONG SIDE???

Some forum members might not agree with your assessment, Paul. Sidecarkeith, for example, might point out that it's on the same side as his Merlin. Laughing Laughing
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Paul



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 182
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: brakes and ball joints Reply with quote

Dar wrote:
Some forum members might not agree with your assessment, Paul.


It's not the left/right thing - it's the fact that you can't take a sidecar frame meant to attach to one side, and just bolt it up to the other side with zero modifications!

The frame looks like a standard Velorex-style frame, meant to attach to the right, that he's bolted up to the left hand of the bike. On a normal sidecar, the wheel attaches to the rear corner of the frame, not the front!

(And for the record.... I'm with Sidecar Keith, chair on the left is the only proper way to go!)
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Dar



Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 344
Location: Ballston Spa, NY

PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 12:51 am    Post subject: Re: brakes and ball joints Reply with quote

Embarassed I guess you're right, Paul. I didn't recognize it as a frame built for one side being put on the other side. It really does look strange, and I'm guessing would feel that way driving it, too. Embarassed

as Bill says:
zentime wrote:
Done wrong, the results can be unsatisfying and dangerous.


Looks like an example of a Bottom Up design approach gone awry, if I understand that concept correctly: "We've got this perfectly good frame, let's use it!"
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David D
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