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HPS setup discussion
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:03 pm    Post subject: HPS setup discussion Reply with quote

Bill had written in another thread:
"I had more pull to the left, so I decrease the toe in."
This brings up a question or two. With conventional sidecar Manyof us adhere to the idea of keeping the toe in a minimal as possible and adjusting any pull out by varying the lean of the bike in relation to the sidecar itself..or playing with a tilt adjustment for the whole rig. Too much toe in is typically the culprit related to excessive tire wear.
I have heard that some of the HPS rigs run a ton of toe in. If this is the case my question, to start off with, is ..what variables are there that are specifically related to HPSs that may be different than more conventional rigs related to setup and why?
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 972
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Last year I had the toe in about ¾ of an inch.
This year I am going to try ½ of on inch.
The bike does not lean out at all. I have it set so when I am riding, it is vertical.
With out me on it, it may actually lean in a little.
I think with the flat car tires it doesn’t matter about the lean in or out.
Buddies
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill wrote:>>I think with the flat car tires it doesn’t matter about the lean in or out. <<

This is what I have been wondering about being new to these very wide tires. Is what Bill is saying here pretty typical for an HPS rig as far as leanout goes guys?
I have heard of some who run much more toe in on these things than the 1/2 to 3/4 you spoke of Bill.

Okay HPS gurus does anyone adjust for pull, or is it possible to adjust the pull, by varying the scrub radius on the front wheel with spacers? Has this been tried ? What were the results?
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Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

2007
I.S.O.K Sidecar RON-DEE-VOO III ..
First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
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sidebike



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 161
Location: Cabot Trail, Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The GX Racer with CHS uses over 2 " of toe in. When we converted my front end to true center hub I was able to reduce my toe in to .5 in. Question
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 972
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Roger,
That's interesting, because that is what I have for toe in now and I too have true CHS...I don't know why we require less toe in...ZEN where are you?
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger wrote:
>>The GX Racer with CHS uses over 2 " of toe in. When we converted my front end to true center hub I was able to reduce my toe in to .5 in.<<

Roger,
Was there a scrub radius on your previous, GX Racer, front end. If so that would have created a pull which may have been counteracted by so much excessive toe-in. Was there any wheel offset changes from what was originally supplied?
This is what I was wondering about (only opposite in a way) in an earlier post concerning if one could negate pull by playing with the intersecting point of the kingpin inclination and the tire centerline at ground level (scrub radius).
Man, I am convinced, I think, that TRUE CENTER HUB is the way to go. It takes all question out of the system unless wheel width or backspacing is changed. The diameter of the tire means nothing as it would with the 'center point' (not true center hub) design.
What did this do for your tire wear, Roger , after the conversion to true
center hub?? Did it help?
Claude
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sidebike



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 161
Location: Cabot Trail, Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HPS do not run any lean out. The sidecar chassis is mounted at a fixed
90 degrees to the bike.
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sidebike



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 161
Location: Cabot Trail, Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Man, I am convinced, I think, that TRUE CENTER HUB is the way to go. It takes all question out of the system unless wheel width or backspacing is changed. The diameter of the tire means nothing as it would with the 'center point' (not true center hub) design.
What did this do for your tire wear, Roger , after the conversion to true
center hub?? Did it help?


True Center Hub is the way to go....
Befor making the change to TCHS my front tire was normal with no excessive wear. the sidecar tire wore evenly but did not last too long.

When I converted to TCHS there was no change in rear tire wear.
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sidebike wrote:
HPS do not run any lean out. The sidecar chassis is mounted at a fixed
90 degrees to the bike.


Okay I am learning but wonder why the rigs do not pull to the right (towards the sidecar side) with only 1/2" of toe in and no lean out ??
Is there no lean out due to the width or the tires?
Claude
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 972
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't explain it.
I have adjusted my toe in to 1/2"
Going down the road, I put on the cruise, let go of the bars and it goes straight. Some sort of black magic or something.
Or maybe we should ask the question "Why do some rigs need so much toe in?".
Thinking
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
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www.Yankee-Engineering.com
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmcsheehy wrote:
I can't explain it.
I have adjusted my toe in to 1/2"
Going down the road, I put on the cruise, let go of the bars and it goes straight. Some sort of black magic or something.
Or maybe we should ask the question "Why do some rigs need so much toe in?".
Thinking


Bill,
Your rig has a true center hub right?
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Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

2007
I.S.O.K Sidecar RON-DEE-VOO III ..
First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 972
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2005 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I have True CHS and I think it has about 1-3/4" of trail, 1/2" of toe in and no lean out of bike.
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 972
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sidebike wrote:

True Center Hub is the way to go....
Befor making the change to TCHS my front tire was normal with no excessive wear. the sidecar tire wore evenly but did not last too long.

When I converted to TCHS there was no change in rear tire wear.

Hey Roger,
After you converted to TCHS the toe in was 1/2 inch. What was the toe in before you converted to TCHS? Question
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
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sidebike



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 161
Location: Cabot Trail, Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hey Roger,
After you converted to TCHS the toe in was 1/2 inch. What was the toe in before you converted to TCHS? Question


It was 2 1/2 inch.
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docmike



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 630
Location: Eastern NC

PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
It was 2 1/2 inch.


I guess maybe my 3 inch toe in isn't that far out of line given I have a LL front end.
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