An international forum for people interested in modern high performance road going sidecars. Forum Index An international forum for people interested in modern high performance road going sidecars.

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Wheels question
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    An international forum for people interested in modern high performance road going sidecars. Forum Index -> HPSidecar Technical Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:15 pm    Post subject: Wheels question Reply with quote

I assume many of the HPS rigs are running automotive wheels adapted in different ways as well as motorcycle wheels on the rear in some cases. What wheels do you run? What sizes?
_________________
Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

2007
I.S.O.K Sidecar RON-DEE-VOO III ..
First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
sidebike



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 161
Location: Cabot Trail, Cape Breton Island Nova Scotia

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am running 15x6 Honda car wheels front and rear with 185/55R15 tires. The Sidecar has 14x6 with 185/60R14 tire.
I run 20 lbs. front ,22 lbs rear and 18 lbs side.
_________________
Nostalgia' s nice but, nothing beats Performance.
Roger
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our rig will start out with 15x6 1/2 Premax aftermarket wheels originally on a Mazda with a 4 x 100mm bolt pattern. (These were an ebay item...paid one dollar plus shipping for all three). Going to try 205/50x15 tires to begin with but may go smaller on the front. Sidecar wheel right now is a 14x ?? with a 185/55x14 on it. Tire diameters are in the 23 inch ballpark.
Yep it's a budget rig but we're havin fun with it.
Claude
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
SatanicMechanic



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Crestview, FL

PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question for you guys...how are you using an automotive type wheel on the rear (adapting the hub), and isn't it hard to find a wheel with the proper backspacing?? I'd love to do this, even if I had to custom order some wheels, but a low buck approach would be even sweeter Wink
Thanks, --Todd
_________________
Mas Tequiza!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think there are any LOW buck solutions.
I am currently running a 17" car tire on a 17 “motorcycle rim.
I drove it all summer like this. This winter I discovered a problem. The tire went flat a few times just sitting in the garage. I took the wheel off looking for a leak with soapy water, could not find any thing. Until I stood on the side wall of the tire. Air was leaking all around the bead. I would be very concerned about rolling the tire off the bead under hard cornering. And that could be very dangerous. I need to come up with something else. I would not recommend using car tire on motorcycle rim. If you ever have the opportunity, put a motorcycle rim and a car rim next to each other. There are huge differences.
Doe
_________________
Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
SatanicMechanic



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Crestview, FL

PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's interesting. Definitely something to mull over. Thanks for the info Bill.....
_________________
Mas Tequiza!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably two of the best, comparitively speaking, 'low(er) buck' wheel makers would be Norm Pottruff (from Canada) and Harry Tarzin (H.T. Wheels) from Central Pa.
Norm's email address is: npottruff@hotmail.com
Harry's phone number is: (814) 349-2414
Last year I ran a set of Harry's wheel on our K100 with 135R15 tires mounted.
This coming year I will be running larger tires on this same bike by use of an adapter in the rear and a center hub stteering in the front. The Wheels will be Premax aftermarket wheels originally on a Mazda.Wheel wise this is for sure a 'low buck' situation as the 6 1/2" x 15 wheels (3 of them) were purchased off of eBay for one dollar plus shipping. The adaptor is homemade from a chunk of 6" diameter 6061 t-6 aluminum. If you wish to see a similar adaptor picture go to the MSN site called 'Coolhackers'.
Yes, there are low buck solutions to many things but much dependds on the bike one is working with. In the case of the BMW it has a single sided swingarm in the rear so it is not a difficult matter to make an adaptor.The front, of course speaks for itself.
If it is any consolation, money wise, there are many riders out there that spend far more money on chrome and aftermarket do dads than what we are spending to convert this bike over to a better handling machine. If someone has the means to do this type of work himself it takes more time than money when it comeas down to it.
Claude
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
SatanicMechanic



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Crestview, FL

PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info Claude. That's all I could envision was some kind of billet hub adapter with studs for the wheel that took it down to the bike's axle diameter and mounted the rotor, but I haven't ever seen one..(that'd be for a dual sided swingarm). What about the cush drive, or do you do away with it? I don't know how BMW's are built in that respect anyway since they're all shafties, correct? --Todd
_________________
Mas Tequiza!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The BMW does not have a cush drive.
I understand that some of the rigs that have a cush drive have done away with it but most retain it. Possibly someone else will comment on this aspect of it all. With the wheels that Harry has built the cush drive has been retained. Not sure about Norm's wheels.
Claude
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
SatanicMechanic



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 35
Location: Crestview, FL

PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:41 pm    Post subject: Found this on the USCA sidecar forum... Reply with quote

Quote:
WARNING:
(From a Hal Kendall Post at SCT)
15" Auto tires are about 0.15" smaller in ID than 15" while the
M/C is about 0.15" larger in ID than 15". This varaince is enough to create a potentially dangerous situation when mounting. There are documented injuries related to this.

Quote:
Be aware that automobile tires have slightly different bead diameter than the "same size" motorcycle tire. For instance, a 15" car tire is slightly smaller in bead diameter than a 15" motorcycle tire. It's not much, but just enough to cause problems. The car tire will be very snug on a motorcycle rim, and the motorcycle tire will be very loose on a car rim.

Some people have turned down the bead area on a (cast) motorcycle wheel to accept a car tire, but that's a BIG gamble that you're leaving enough metal to hold the load. Run the scenario through your mind of a rim disintegrating on the superslab in the middle of traffic

I know you've seen this Claude, I believe you posted to this thread, I was just repeating it in response to Bill's car tire/bike rim scenario....
_________________
Mas Tequiza!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good info. The motorcycle wheel sizes and the car wheel sizes are indeed different but some sizes are much futher off than others.
15" is off a lot and a 15" car tire should never be mounted to a 15" motorcycle wheel. There hav ebeen injuries in the past when trying to mount such a combination.
However, 16" amd 17" motorcvycle and car wheels sizings are really close to one and the same and is has been fairly common practice to mount car tires to these rims. It should be noted that even at this it is not the ideal scenario as the actual seating surface at the bead area is varied as well. I do not recall problems arizeing from this even though Bill M. said he was having trouble with a slow leak.
On these HPS rigs the cornering forces are much greater than on, say , a Goldwing touring rig. Also many do run the air pressure down quite a bit. if I remember right I think Bill said he was running around 15 pounds. With low pressure the tire/bead interface is asked to do a lot more work due to the increased slip angle of the tire. This can be a potential problem .
Heck maybe we should explore the use of bead locks on these things Smile
We ran down to 6 pounds in the sprint cars with about 9 beiong normal.
Claude
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Paul



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 182
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swaybar2002 wrote:
The BMW does not have a cush drive.
Claude


The BMW has the cush drive built into the driveshaft. It's a nice, clean solution since it's hidden, and doesn't create any wheel mounting issues.

If you had no cush drive at all, and no slipper clutch, you'd better be VERY good at matching the revs on downshifts - especially with the extra mass and wide sticky tires of a decent sidecar rig.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zentime



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 833
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SatanicMechanic wrote:
Thanks for the info Claude. That's all I could envision was some kind of billet hub adapter with studs for the wheel that took it down to the bike's axle diameter and mounted the rotor, but I haven't ever seen one..(that'd be for a dual sided swingarm). What about the cush drive, or do you do away with it? I don't know how BMW's are built in that respect anyway since they're all shafties, correct? --Todd


Todd this is how I did it it on my FJ
http://members.aol.com./scarsrfun/album2.html

how I did it on my XX
http://members.aol.com/blackbirdezs/Index.html
zen
_________________
CBR1100XX/EZS
1973 MotoGuzzi V7sport

will August ever come............
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
swaybar2002 wrote:
The BMW does not have a cush drive.
Claude


The BMW has the cush drive built into the driveshaft. It's a nice, clean solution since it's hidden, and doesn't create any wheel mounting issues.

If you had no cush drive at all, and no slipper clutch, you'd better be VERY good at matching the revs on downshifts - especially with the extra mass and wide sticky tires of a decent sidecar rig.


Guess I should have said there is no cush drive directly related to the wheel itself. Wink
Claude
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
swaybar2002 wrote:
The BMW does not have a cush drive.
Claude


The BMW has the cush drive built into the driveshaft. It's a nice, clean solution since it's hidden, and doesn't create any wheel mounting issues.

If you had no cush drive at all, and no slipper clutch, you'd better be VERY good at matching the revs on downshifts - especially with the extra mass and wide sticky tires of a decent sidecar rig.


Hey Paul, How does the cush drive work on a BMW? Built into the drive shaft? Does it use the torque of the shaft itself as the cush?
Out of the way.
_________________
Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    An international forum for people interested in modern high performance road going sidecars. Forum Index -> HPSidecar Technical Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group