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rig weight

 
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docmike



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 630
Location: Eastern NC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:45 pm    Post subject: rig weight Reply with quote

The other day someone remarked I had added 300 pounds of metal to the rig whil doing the CHS upgrade....... Sad

So today I put it on the truck scales in the hanger.

Previously I weighed it one wheel at a time and added together to get 949 pounds.

Now on the truck scales (which weighsin 20 pound increments) it wieghs 1100 pounds. This was with both gas tanks full, so there was abouty 30 - 40 pounds more gas than the first measurement. SO including the aux gas tank I added about 110 - 120 pounds.

Weight on the sidecar wheel went from 192 to 260, so the weight went mainly where I needed it to go.

With my tools in the trunk and 100 pounds of lead in the car weight on the sidecar wheel went to 380 pounds.

with me seated on the bike sc wheel still 380.

Just out of couriousity, with me seated on the bike and hanging off towards the car sc wheel weight went to 420, just leaning my shoulder towards the car, weight was 380. (By this time there was a crowd gathering, so I didn't want to do much more.)

So it looks like leaning doesn't do much, at least on this rig and for me. Hanging off makes a little difference, but the main thing is ballast.

for what its worth, all caveats apply, your results my vary.

Mike
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 976
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SO WHATíS THE HP TO WEIGHT RATIO?
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
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docmike



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 630
Location: Eastern NC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unladen about 11 lbs / hp

with my ballast, tools, and my big butt, about 15 lbs / hp

going by the factory claimed 100 hp,,,,
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Mike Currin
93 BMW K1100RS / EML Speed 2000
89 Honda GB 500 (6,700 miles, all original except tires)
67 Triumph 650 chopper
92 Suzuki GS500 (eldest son)
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Paul



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 182
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With centre hub steering, and big sticky car tyres, do you really need ballast in the sidecar?? Especially when you already have that much weight on the sidecar wheel?
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docmike



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 630
Location: Eastern NC

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
With centre hub steering, and big sticky car tyres, do you really need ballast in the sidecar?? Especially when you already have that much weight on the sidecar wheel?


I've thought that myself,,,,,

I set everything up so that the bike sits upright and I have very little camber on the sidecar wheel with number one son in the sidecar. The ballast keeps everything level.

(Except for the fact that number one son has grown and now things are probably a little off with him in the car.) (He also is taking over the R80RT / EML soon so it won't matter anyhow.)

New problem, just discovered today. Parked the rig Tuesday after work, went in the barn today, looks like the wreck of the Exxon Valdeez, evidence points to a bad seal in the oil pump,,,,always something Sad
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Dar



Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 344
Location: Ballston Spa, NY

PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
With centre hub steering, and big sticky car tyres, do you really need ballast in the sidecar?? Especially when you already have that much weight on the sidecar wheel?


I can't claim to be an expert on sidecar design, don't have the first clue as to how these things are designed, engineered, and built; and certainly can't drive it to keep up with some of you guys, BUT...

If you don't keep the wheels on the ground, it don't matter much how you want to steer the front wheel, or how sticky those tires are - you ain't getting much traction on that air even if it does feel hot, muggy and sticky. Thinking What I seem to recall from physics class back in high school, all those decades ago, is that the force it takes to tip something over (or start the process, i.e. flying the chair) depends on the sideways force, a function of speed and radius of the turn ("g forces"); the weight of the object you're tipping; and the distribution of that weight in the object (the location of the center of gravity).

True, the way a center hub steering unit gets built may help keep the center of gravity lower than some other configurations, and car wheels with big tires (sticky or not) are heavier and lower than tall skinny bike tires, so these factors can be indirectly related to keeping that sidecar wheel on the ground. But, theories aside, in actual practice, it's a lot harder to fly my (1st generation) Bandito with a passenger or a couple of bags of sand in it than when it's empty. Old Buddies

And driving it with the sidecar body removed, but WITH the sidecar frame, center hub steering and wide sticky tires still in place can be LOTS of fun (or terrifying, depending on your point of view).

Sure, less weight is good from the acceleration performance viewpoint, but that's only one aspect of the total "high performance" package. Where to make the tradeoff between less weight vs. less stability will probably be a different point for each one of us.
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Too Tall



Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 4
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 3:34 pm    Post subject: Rig tip over point Reply with quote

Riding an HPS rig is a wonderful experience but, because of the vehicleís superior handling qualities, it does invite complacency. Knowing the point where one's rig breaks ground contact and starts to fly is an interesting topic, and one I take with all seriousness. Last month I was coming home from a campout in Red hook, NY traveling on Rt. 199, a great road to "push" your HPS on. The car was loaded with camping gear, I figure around seventy pounds or so, the road was clear weather perfect, and I was traveling the curves at slightly above the posted limits when I came into a decreasing radius turn and the car came up. No big deal, I thought, slowed down and just drove the rig as a solo as I've done in the past until the wheel came down. Well, the turn continued to tighten and I started think I wouldn't be able to slow down quickly enough to make the turn and not flip the car over the bike and end up into the oncoming lane, but luck was with me and I made a three point landing.
Some lessons learned. Don't over ride conditions. Realize that even HPS sidecars are unbalanced and top heavy. Half of the riderís weight is on the outside of the bike so when the rig is in a right hander the rider is effectively a "Johnson Bar" acting as a lever and fulcrum on the rig.
One thing that I've thought of to counter the effect of rider weight in a right hander is to install a floor board on the lower sidecar supports so when pushing into a hard right turn, the rider by slightly lifting and shifting their weight to the right leg and the floorboard can apply weight to the car at the same time removing some of the negative weight on the bike side. It's just a thought and I donít know if it'll work as I expect until given some real time road testing.
Frank.
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