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Tires
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:28 am    Post subject: Tires Reply with quote

Well this subject has to come up. I am curious as to what tires many of the ones here are running. What tires had been run before and the good and bad points of both. What sizes? What rim widths with what sizes etc.
Air pressure? Which tires are best in the wet? The worst? Does anyone run a directional tire mounted backwards on the front? All input is welcome.
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Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

2007
I.S.O.K Sidecar RON-DEE-VOO III ..
First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
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Bandit Bill



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 202
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On my rig the last season, i ran 28 PSI on all 3 wheels. 145R12 on the sidecar (limited by depth of Hannigan wheel well), 165R15 on the motorcycle rear wheel, and a 130/90R17 Avon bias ply rear tire, mounted reversed directional on the front wheel. Typically, front motorcycle tires have 4-5 mm total tread depth on them, while rear motorcycle tires have 8-9 mm total tread depth, so running a motorcycle rear tire on the front made sense as a matter of economy. I got 9,000 km's (~6000 miles) out of the front tire this past season, with still another 1,500 km's or so left on it. That said - running this sort of setup on a heavy rig, in anything resembling a spirited ride, shows that it is simply a very limited effectiveness compromise. Cornering, the front tire goes sideways just about as much as it will go forward. Minimal lateral traction once the tire had endured a few hundred km's of heat cycling.

Getting a car tire on it for the new season, should be a pleasant, eye-opening experience. Very Happy I'm planning on putting 185's on front and rear of the motorcycle, come the new season.
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do you run a rear tire mounted backwards instead of frontwards for the front tire?
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmcsheehy wrote:
Why do you run a rear tire mounted backwards instead of frontwards for the front tire?


Anybody Question

Thinking
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
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Bandit Bill



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 202
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's somewhat debated as to the effectiveness, but the general wisdom is a follows in a quote from http://www.race-uscra.com/sidecars.html

Quote:
The Rule of Thumb I've heard is that if there is only one direction of rotation noted on the tire that the front tire is mounted backwards, i.e. opposite the specified direction of rotation as the braking forces take the place of the acceleration force in the tire carcass.

Well my friend's question peaked my curiosity so I contacted the very patient Phil Lamont, the Canadian importer who in turn put the question to Fort Dunlop in England. The Dunlop response was concise: "The arrow on the sidewall indicates the correct rotation for the drive wheel. When mounted on the front, the rotation should be reversed, as most of its work is in braking. ie. the arrow should be incorrect" on the front. It probably is not crucial - in our experience tread joint problems are minimal on moulded tread-patterned tyres".


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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Running a rear motorcycle tire on the front and mounted backwards is populr with the trike guys , or so we had been told. Some of the sidecar guys had been trying it as well and said that braking was improved. This is with a MOTROCYCLE TIRE. I had posted the question to see if anyone had tried it with a directional automotive tire. Could, of course, be a whole different ball of wax.
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Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

2007
I.S.O.K Sidecar RON-DEE-VOO III ..
First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
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Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was interesting reading, thank you.
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about tire sizes? 185s , 205s anyone? On what rim width? What brand of tires are popular? Does anyone run Kumho tires? What Air pressure etc.
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Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

2007
I.S.O.K Sidecar RON-DEE-VOO III ..
First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run Vredestein Sportrac 185/55/15 on the front and the side. I run a Sumitomo HTR Z II 205/50/17 on the rear.
Still playing with the air pressure, at last trial I was at 15lbs in the front, 15lbs in the rear & 10lbs on the side.
I also think these pressures are too low. Iím guessing add 5 to all of them.
I also run a spare tire around my middle. I keep this one fully inflated Laughing
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems as though Vredestein is a popular brand. Where is a source for them? How do they compare to other brands..what makes them so popular?
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Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

2007
I.S.O.K Sidecar RON-DEE-VOO III ..
First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use them because they were recommended to me. They are great tires in the rain. they are relatively inexpensive. The compound is hard enough to slide around corner but soft enough to stick to the road. Check out the tread pattern, they look cool too.



_________________
Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the Kumho tire I am planning to try. It is a 205/50 x 15
Am I out to lunch here ?

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Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

2007
I.S.O.K Sidecar RON-DEE-VOO III ..
First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
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Powersl@ve



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 40
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmcsheehy wrote:
I use them because they were recommended to me. They are great tires in the rain. they are relatively inexpensive. The compound is hard enough to slide around corner but soft enough to stick to the road. Check out the tread pattern, they look cool too.




I had 'm on my previous rig.
Vredestein Sportrac II I had... very soft compound and a lot of grip but wear very fast.

frontwheel lasted an eternity..
sidecarwheel did about 4.000...
and the rearwheel did 3.000 km and was totaly gone, a complete slick tire.

So because of the grip my favorite setup is a Sportrac II in front (less understeer)
And michelins rear end sicecarwheel, type Pilot Exalto: great compromise in grip / wear / rain.

Front 185/60R14 at 2.2 bar
Side 185/60R14 at 2.4 bar
Rear 195/60R14 at 2.8 bar

This is in dry conditions, in the wet 0.5 bar lesser each tire.
I will start with my new rig in this setup...
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maurice,
While we are on the topic of tires, I know that there are different sizes available in the Netherlands than there are here in the state. I wonder if you or anyone else reading this post knows of a manufacturer that makes and sells either a 195/55/17 or 185/55/17 or 195/50/17 or 185/50/17. I use a 205/50/17 now but I think I may need one just a little bit narrower.
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
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Powersl@ve



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 40
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2005 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmcsheehy wrote:
Maurice,
While we are on the topic of tires, I know that there are different sizes available in the Netherlands than there are here in the state. I wonder if you or anyone else reading this post knows of a manufacturer that makes and sells either a 195/55/17 or 185/55/17 or 195/50/17 or 185/50/17. I use a 205/50/17 now but I think I may need one just a little bit narrower.


Damn....how do you come up with these sizes?
Michelin and not even Vredestein have this size... and I thought the Vredestein T-Trac came in almost every possible size Neutral
Sorry...

Edit: there is a french brand.....I cant remender the name but I believe they might have them.
As soon as I remember the name you'll be the first to know!
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