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is wider better?
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docmike



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 630
Location: Eastern NC

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:35 pm    Post subject: is wider better? Reply with quote

If its true for HPS as they say in the Pontiac commercials wider is better. Other than aesthetics, is there any reason not to offset the front wheel to the left?

Question

If it was only an inch or two it wouldn't be noticeable to the casual observer, but would it make a difference?



Mike
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
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Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: is wider better? Reply with quote

docmike wrote:
... it wouldn't be noticeable to the casual observer, but would it make a difference?

Mike


I would notice, and tell everyone. Laughing
If you want to make your rig wider, why dont you just move the sidecar over? Thinking
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Bill
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IanJ



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess is that it would make the rig handle differently. It might improve some things (like straight-forward acceleration), but it might make cornering bad-different. But then, 1 or 2 inches might not do anything noticeable with the sidecar attached.

I'm just thinking about this in the sense that, if you were to continue that trend to the extreme and offset the front wheel way out to the side, so the rear wheel is an equal lateral distance from the front wheel and the sidecar wheel, you'd have an inverted trike, sort of. This would tend to balance out some of the turning forces from the sidecar, but not all of them, unless you put an equal weight out that far as well. But it would also make going around corners, particularly left hand corners (assuming the boat is on the right) dangerous, unless you moved the sidecar wheel forward a lot.

Overall, my guess is that this is a solution looking for a problem.
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Paul



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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Location: Utah

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 2:45 am    Post subject: Probably worse Reply with quote

Even cars run a wider track at the rear than the front. Moving the front wheel towards the middle (like a trike) could improve things - or at least make things more symmetrical. But making a three-tracked vehicle with the front wheel all the way to the left is going to make left hand bends a major problem.

Wider also isn't better aerodynamically.

I also wouldn't hold up a Pontiac idea as an example of good engineering Big Grin
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LD Hack



Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Posts: 5
Location: Grand Marais, MN

PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an EML Tourist T on a Honda GL1100, and the previous owner wideded the sidecar frame by about 7 inches. I have it set up with no pull, 3/8" toe in, and it handles fine.

I understand you are thinking of offsetting your front wheel by a few inches. No experience here, except I do know my front and rear wheels are offset by maybe 1/2 inch or a little more. My rear wheel is offset to the left of my steer tire.
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My rig was the narrowest one in Maggie valley, and I had no passenger.
My front and rear tire are in line and in the middle.
I had no problems keeping up or going fast.
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Bill
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Ralph



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hehehe Bill it would have been harder to keep up the first two days Big Grin
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Comment.
Embarassed
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Bill
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Ralph



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wink Big Grin
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IanJ



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul: For what it's worth, it was my understanding that most cars have a wider front end than rear end, not the other way around. I haven't ever verified this, but I've often seen it while driving behind another vehicle. It would be easy to check with a tape measure and a couple of friendly car owners.

And yeah, I'm not sure Pontiac's marketing slogans should be taken as guidance on automotive performance. Laughing
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docmike



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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Location: Eastern NC

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My original thinking on this was that putting the wheels farther to the outside would reduce the tendency to lift the sidecar in right handers. (Since adding the sway bar a while back this has been much less of a problem.)

From what I've read so far, if the front was moved to the left you would end up with a T-Rex, which would be more symmetrical or moving the wheel right would give you a standard trike which would be more symmetrical.

Probably best to leave well enough alone.

Mike

(who's various other bikes and cars includes 2 1979 PONTIAC TRANS AMS.) Cool
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mike,
My thinking is this. Question
Moving the front wheel to the left or further away would help right-handers but cause the back tire to lift more on left-handers.
My limited experience driving my HPS.
It is far more dangerous or scary to lift the back tire than the sidecar wheel.
Plus like you said, the sway bar does a very nice job keeping the sidecar wheel down. Motorcycle Happy
If you move the front wheel to the left, moving the sidecar wheel forward should compensate for moving the wheel to the left, but then make it harder to steer.
The next rig I build, I think I would try to lower the center of gravity using smaller tires and make it wider by using a wider sidecar.

Lower the center of gravity using smaller tires or loose some weight. Laughing

All this may not matter, Ití just my opinion. Blah Blah Blah

I hope some other members will submit their opinions as well.
Impatient
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
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Ralph



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
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Location: Lexington, Ky

PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"It is far more dangerous and scary to lift the back tire than the sidecar wheel."
You dam right my friend, when that back wheel get lite things will go to hell quickly. hehe like shutting down in a hard left. Boy U is smart Cool
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Bill M is right about moving the sidecar wheel forward a little. Draw the shape of the rig as viewed from above and then draw the tip over lines. There has to be merit to moving the front wheel to the left. The T-Rex example is good food for thought too.
Heck make adjustable or various mounting options for the front swingarms and scoot it all the way to the left. Make sure before you really haul it into the first tight corner at warp speed you have a friend wth a video camera following you. If you crash you might as well get it on tape.
Keep that rear wheel down..the pucker factor when it comes up far outweighs any advanges that may have been projected on the fun meter.
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SRADkneedragger



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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Location: West Texas

PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK
Day 1 and I'm allready here with a stupid NOOB question.
F-1 racing sidehacks(although more car than motorcycle)have the front wheel(hub center steer) offset to the sidecar side by what appears to be several inches. How does this affect the steering of the vehicle as a whole? Also how would offsetting the rear a few inches AWAY from the car affect handling?
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