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Sidecar frame materials - whats needed

 
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Bandit Bill



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 202
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jul 15, 2005 4:18 pm    Post subject: Sidecar frame materials - whats needed Reply with quote

Since it looks like i'm going to be making up a new frame for the sidecar more by necessity than by choice at this point, i need some pointers on some materials.

Bill M., I like the design traits of your sidecar frame - could you advise on what tubing you used in your build up - dimensional and thickness wise? What sort of shock absorber did you use? spring weight?

Any pointers, of any type welcome - this is totally uncharted territory - I'll be stripping the rig down this weekend, and advising the machine shop that i've got work coming their way. I need to know especially, how the bearing arrangement works with the swinging arm .. i'm a total cluebee with how this sort of arrangement is put together.
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Bill,
I used 1-5/8 OD x 1/8(.125) wall mild steel tubing. 1-3/8 OD tubing fits inside to make the two lower mount on my bike. The swing arm bearings are double row angular contact bearing, you can get them from McMaster Carr. The shock was from an early moto guzzi or Bmw, Koni, no longer available, it has adjustable dampening. your sidecar is way heavier than mine, so spring rate doesn't matter. Plus I am still playing with springs on mine. I would think any adjustable shock would work.
Youíre supposed to do this stuff during the winter. Big Grin
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
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Bandit Bill



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 202
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmcsheehy wrote:
Hi Bill,
I used 1-5/8 OD x 1/8(.125) wall mild steel tubing. 1-3/8 OD tubing fits inside to make the two lower mount on my bike. The swing arm bearings are double row angular contact bearing, you can get them from McMaster Carr.


I've been thinking about the sidecar frame - It is already constructed of 2" OD mild tubing, likely 1/8" thickness as well. To save myself a whole lot of grief and hassle, I'm going to chop out the offending suspension when the time comes, and add in the modified section to accomodate the 15" wheel.

I'll drop by the bearing wizard local, and see what he can do for me to get the bearings.. I assume that these are the same sort that are found in steering stems, etc?

Quote:

The shock was from an early moto guzzi or Bmw, Koni, no longer available, it has adjustable dampening. your sidecar is way heavier than mine, so spring rate doesn't matter. Plus I am still playing with springs on mine. I would think any adjustable shock would work.
Youíre supposed to do this stuff during the winter. Big Grin


I went into the local wrecking yard today, and spent a couple hours looking at stuffs.. I got a '01 or so Honda Civic 15" 1 piece rim, dealer option. Not cheap, coming from a wrecking yard.. It'll take a few more trips to the junkyard to find the other parts i need, I enquired about the 87-88 era Chev Nova/Corolla and they don't see them often - when they do, something that 'old' usually gets crushed right away. The few acura's the yard had, the rotors were ventilated, not single rotor style as such could be used with a motorcycle caliper.

.

Also got a new sidecar seat - found a better, slightly narrower and shorter height seat out of a Toyota Van (VW Bus style) which is meant to mount flat.

Tell me about doing this in the winter.. Rolling Eyes I only really got back on the road a month ago.. i've rolled on 5,000 km's in that month, so it's been a good month, but way too short to be going right back into mod season. I haven't yet got the body off the sidecar yet, hope to tomorrow.. I'm hoping against hope that this is something i can apply a bandaid fix on for the next couple months, so that i can enjoy the remainder of the season AND have ample time to find the parts and materials required to fix this mess, without stressing out about it too much.

Thanks for the info thus far, i'm sure i'll be buggin' you for more info as time goes on, as well as from anyone else who's foolish enough to stick their heads outta the sand and make their presence and opinions known Smile
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Bandit Bill



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 202
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2005 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stupid Question #1.. doing some ebay 'research', i've found the following for 1986-1994 Acura Integra



Are the rear rotors, the ones i want to source, and is this the 'workable' with Nova spindle and hub assembly/Honda wheel setup?

Thanks Smile
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, thatís copyright infringement.
Just kidding. Those rotors look expensive, but yes I did use the rear rotor from a 91 accura. For the sidecar wheel assembly your not limited by the space like you would be on the front wheel of a CHS Wheel assembly. So just about anything would work with a 4x100mm bolt pattern. There is a list of vehicles hear if you want to try something different.
http://www.teufert.net/wheels/bolt-pat.htm
You just need to fit it inside the wheel.
The only reason I used the Acura roto is I had it laying around in my garage. And the caliper I used came with the front calipers I bought, again just laying around not being used.

I had been colecting spindles, hubs, rotors, calipers, ball joints, anything I thought I may be able to use while working on my Blackbird.
Taking them from friends junk cars and what not. I also have a friend that owns a repair shop so I get to see a lot of cars undersides. Big Grin
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
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Bandit Bill



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 202
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info, and thanks for the link to that list also! That will make my coming junkyard crawls much, much easier when it's in hand.

What i read you in saying, is don't constrain myself in terms of the parts selection - if it looks like it'll mount up, everything mates up, and stays together, it should work. What you've given in terms of a parts list, is your parts list - feel free to deviate accordingly, right? Smile

Tubbing out the wheel well is going to be a chore in itself, might have to make a fender well mould outside of the sidecar first, then install it once fabbed to correct dimensions, and finished.
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
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Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Motorcycle Happy Correct Clapping
What worked for me might not for you.
Also, a good web site for wheels is:
http://www.wheelspecs.com/main/index.php
Buddies
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2005 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill S.,
You should not have to make a mold to do the fender well tub. If you lay up a one, or two, ply layer of glass on a flat surface you can come out with a flat sheet that can be bent all over as needed. Then once you have it in place you can add more layers of fiberglass on the rougher side and get the rigidity you need. This is for the round part. The vertical part, if I am invisioning this right, would just be another flat piece glassed in. Simple really.

To mak eth eflat sheet all you need is a piece of masonite or formica or something smooth like that. Lay it out flat and wwax it well with a relaese agent. Johnson's Paste wax works very well..comes in a round yellow metal can. Anyhow, wax it up good and sloppy. the mix some resin (use polyester as it is less expensive and easy to work with) and brush it on. Then lay the cloth onto the resin add more resin and be sure the cloth is saturated well. Squegee off any excess resin. Add another layer of glass etc. Once you begin to do this you need to work fast as the fiberglass resin mixture may 'pop' or set up fast. Mixing the right amount of resin and hardner is the trick and it can vary depending on weather etc.

Once th esheet is cured pull it off th ebase and you are on your way. the side that was on th emasonite will be nice an dsmooth.

Have some acetone on hand to clean up with.

If you are dead set on using a mold you can probably make a really nice one using a metal trailer fender as a start. But, really, this is not worth the hassle for a one off seal.
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Bandit Bill



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 202
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a better look-see at the sidecar suspension, over the weekend.

Things did impact, and there was some bending of the swinging arm spindle, but not a significant amount at this point. What punctured the sidecar body was the top shock mount bolt head, not the shock tower itself. The shock tower appeared to torque a bit when the road-way lip impacted the swinging arm end, rather than bending as i had first feared.

I won't be taking the bike off the road for this, at this time. I'll have to adapt to it, be more cautious, and live with it until the winter wrenching season. It'll give me time to gather all the necessary parts at leisure, relatively stress free, as well as come up with a design that is effective.

Claude, i likely will use that process in part of my fiberglass fabrication - I generally make a 3-dimensional female mold out of cardboard, cardstock, and careful paper stripping in of curves and corners (think cedar strip canoe in process) - It's a one shot, destructive mold process, but you can get darn dimensionally accurate if you take your time making the mold - it takes me 2-3x the amount of time to make a good mold, than to actually fiberglass and finish (done a few bellypans, other pieces of bodywork in the past).



What scares the bejeesus out of me, is the amount of time required to spend in 'confined spaces' of the sidecar body, doing the physical cut out, and re-fiberglassing of the new pieces into the body, a noxious environment to work in to say the least.

I'm trying to think of a sidecar suspension setup at present, that will be as compact fore and aft as possible. Behind the sidecar seat, is cargo/dead space.. a double A-Arm type suspension setup looks interesting at the moment.
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