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Anti Lock Brakes

 
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 975
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2005 9:23 pm    Post subject: Anti Lock Brakes Reply with quote

Does any one have working ABS on their HPS?
Do you think itís worth having?
Is it integrated with the sidecar wheel?
Question
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
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Ralph



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 584
Location: Lexington, Ky

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whistle
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docmike



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 630
Location: Eastern NC

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I usually have working ABS on my rig. (It came up with a fault the night before I left for Maggie Valley. I reset it several times but it would fault again, so I finally gave up and left it in fault condition. The brakes work normally just no ABS.) ( Number one son renamed it the Annoying Brake Stuff.)

There is a sensor on the front and rear wheel, but not on the sidecar. When the ABS trips on the rear wheel it also pulses the sidecar wheel. If the sidecar wheel locks with out the rear wheel locking the ABS does not trigger.

Given the differences in caliper and rotor sizes I doubt the sidecar wheel would lock up before the rear wheel.

I've never had the ABS come on in "anger." Pulling unto the smooth cement in the barn I can make either the front or rear ABS pulse.

I don't think its as important on an HPS as on a solo bike. On a solo a locked front brake will put you on your butt. On a rig I would think you could recover.

The EML kit for the BMW K1200RS does away with the ABS.

My GTS solo bike has ABS, but given all the problems with that system I try not to count on it to save my butt. When I get some spare time I need to rebuild the pump.

I wouldn't swap bikes just for ABS.

I have considered getting rid of it on the K11RS/EML. Talking to people who have removed it form K11RS solo bikes doing so gets rid of the slight sponginess in the brake lever drops a little over 20 pounds.

disclaimer: This is all my opinion, your results may vary. If you disable your ABS and bust your butt don't blame me, I thought you could ride.
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TimKillmeyer



Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ARMEC keeps the BMW ABS active in their conversion.

According to the manual I sent for after giving them the serial number of the sidecar, our rig has "option II":

Handbrake: Front wheel and sidecar wheel
Footbrake: Front wheel and sidecar wheel and rear wheel

They've never locked up (I guess they shouldn't if the ABS is working properly) and I'm still trying to figure out the best way to utilize them. I actually try not to use the brakes all that often, prefering to use the throttle and proper gearing at speed. At the HPS gathering I found myself giving a slight 1 or 2 finger tug on the brake lever at times going downhill. But after thinking about it, I thought that I'd probably be better off giving the foot brake a little tap so all 3 wheels could help to slow. It also gave me the feeling of doing a little trail braking like I like to do on the solo bike. In fact, considering how everything is linked and if, for some reason, it would not be "bad" sidecar technique (factoring in the ABS and the 3 wheel link) I wonder if I should just use the same technique I'm used to with the solo bike just to make it easier to transition between rides? Question

Thoughts?

Tim
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Paul



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 182
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TimKillmeyer wrote:
I wonder if I should just use the same technique I'm used to with the solo bike just to make it easier to transition between rides?


On your solo you trail brake with the front? Unusual. Entering a turn you will be loading up the front tire heavily; I find it best to leave the extra braking load off that end, and use the rear brake if necessary.

I would say the same on the sidecar... except that BOTH levers affect the front wheel. In that case, do both hand and foot levers stop the sidecar dead straight? If so use either. If one tends to make the sidecar pull to one side then I'd leave that one alone. (If you're smart you could use that pulling tendency to your advantage, but then you'd have to remember to brake differently in right hand and in left hand corners...)


Note that the way the Armec is hooked up, you only have a partial ABS system. THe footbrake only has a sensor on the rear wheel; so if you hit the footbrake, and the rear locks up, it will release all three wheels. BUT: if you hit the footbrake, and the FRONT locks up, it won't do anything about it. So you can hit the brakes, lock up the front and lose all steering control, and ABS won't save you. Bummer.

For testing ABS I try to find somewhere with decent pavement, little traffic, and a reasonably fresh white painted line across the road. If you hit the brakes really hard - but not to the point of lockup - then the ABS should kick in momentarily as the wheel hits the paint. But, the brakes should come back on once the tire is back on the pavement.
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TimKillmeyer



Joined: 29 Jan 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, no... on the solo bike I trail brake with the rear, but for some reason I've tended to touch the front brake on the sidecar rig in similar situations. I was pondering if it would be proper technique (using just the footbrake) on both rides (the sidecar and the solo bike) so I wouldn't have to "change brains" as much when I swap rides.

Your explaination here:

Quote:
Note that the way the Armec is hooked up, you only have a partial ABS system. THe footbrake only has a sensor on the rear wheel; so if you hit the footbrake, and the rear locks up, it will release all three wheels. BUT: if you hit the footbrake, and the FRONT locks up, it won't do anything about it. So you can hit the brakes, lock up the front and lose all steering control, and ABS won't save you. Bummer.


was something I hadn't realized. In all honesty, it doesn't really seem to pull a lot one way or another, but you've got me thinking that for my particular set-up, getting into the habit of using both the foot AND handbrakes in most situations might be the best technique for me.
(I already use both brakes in most situations on the solo bike, the most notable exception being when I'm in the "trail braking mode" in the twisties.)

Thanks for the heads-up!

Tim
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Paul



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 182
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say that getting used to using both brakes most of the time is a good thing. I only ever use the front brake on a solo - and on a sidecar that gets me into trouble pretty darned quickly!!
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