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Center Hub Steering
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docmike



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 630
Location: Eastern NC

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any of you guys with CHS front ends, what kind of bearings are used where the swing arm (A-arms?) pivot on the bike frame? Thinking

I was thinking (dangerous I know) of a design that would use heim joints, but recent posts have led me to question using them.
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zentime



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 825
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Center Hub steering Reply with quote

Milow wrote:
I have a GL1800 with a Hannigan sidecar and I'm intrested in changing the front to CHS. I've been able to find LL front ends but were do I look to find a CHS frontend for my Goldwing GL1800?

Milow,
Sorry I don't know of any CHS that is currently available for the GL1800. I saw a picture once of a one off CHS on a 1500 from Japan but that's it.
Bill
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

>>Milow wrote:
I have a GL1800 with a Hannigan sidecar and I'm intrested in changing the front to CHS. I've been able to find LL front ends but were do I look to find a CHS frontend for my Goldwing GL1800? <<

Jay Geise of Dauntless Motors had spoken of making one to maket. I do not know how the progress has been but have also never heard that the project was shelved..so u may want to give him a call.
Go to Google and type in DauntlessMotors.com to get the contact numbers and or email.
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Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
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2007
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

docmike wrote:
Any of you guys with CHS front ends, what kind of bearings are used where the swing arm (A-arms?) pivot on the bike frame? Thinking

I was thinking (dangerous I know) of a design that would use heim joints, but recent posts have led me to question using them.


Mike,
I am curious of that too. Come on guys tell us your secrets.. Question
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Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

2007
I.S.O.K Sidecar RON-DEE-VOO III ..
First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
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zentime



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 825
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swaybar2002 wrote:
docmike wrote:
Any of you guys with CHS front ends, what kind of bearings are used where the swing arm (A-arms?) pivot on the bike frame? Thinking

I was thinking (dangerous I know) of a design that would use heim joints, but recent posts have led me to question using them.


Mike,
I am curious of that too. Come on guys tell us your secrets.. Question


It's no secret. You can use ball joints mounted sideways, bronze bushings, urethane bushings, needle bearing, tapered roller bearings. Basically anything you would use in a swing arm. It just depends on what the packaging situation is.
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2005 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill wrote in reply to the question about swingarm pivot bearings:
>>It's no secret. You can use ball joints mounted sideways, bronze bushings, urethane bushings, needle bearing, tapered roller bearings. Basically anything you would use in a swing arm. It just depends on what the packaging situation is.<<

Okay, but what is the most commonly used and why? What sizes are common for a single arm? Double arm?
Not sure what 'packaging situation ' means????
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Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
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2007
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First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
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arbalest



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 92
Location: Windham

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:03 pm    Post subject: caster and camber Reply with quote

Bill, caster is the same as trail, it can be measured in degrees (of slope) or inches(mm) of trail. I think the correct terminology is trail, if measuring in inches, and caster, if measuring in degrees. They both refer to the degree to which the center of the contact patch "trails" the intersection point of the caster angle, where it intersects the road, and the vertical centerline through the front wheel/tire. Camber is the measurement, in degrees, that the wheel/tire combo, deviates from vertical in the left/right plane. I think.
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Paul



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 182
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: caster and camber Reply with quote

arbalest wrote:
Bill, caster is the same as trail, it can be measured in degrees (of slope) or inches(mm) of trail. I think the correct terminology is trail, if measuring in inches, and caster, if measuring in degrees. They both refer to the degree to which the center of the contact patch "trails" the intersection point of the caster angle, where it intersects the road, and the vertical centerline through the front wheel/tire. Camber is the measurement, in degrees, that the wheel/tire combo, deviates from vertical in the left/right plane. I think.



Caster (or "rake") and trail aren't the same thing. Caster is an angle - the steering head angle - measured in degrees. Trail is a distance - measured in inches.

Think of a leading link front end. The caster is set by the motorcycle frame - nothing you do to the front end will change it. The trail can be easily adjusted by lengthening or shortening the leading link's swingarm length.

Confusion sets in here with a typical telescopic fork, since the two interact. If you change the steering head angle, the trail also changes. If you reduce the front wheel size on a motorcycle - or if you slide the fork tubes up in the triple clamps - then BOTH rake and trail change. The rake gets steeper, and the trail decreases (and the handling of a solo bike gets better).
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 972
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trigonometry
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High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitions:
Rake: The angle of the steering head of a motorcycle frame given in degrees.

Trail: The differece on a horizontal plane between a line drawn down through the steering head and a plumb line through the centerline of the front wheel at ground level.

Caster: The amount of steering pivot inclination when viewed from the side described in degrees.

Notes:
With a teloscopic fork or a leading link front end it is more acceptable to talk in terms of rake and trail. Trail being the issue that sidecarists are speaking of(Described in inches or mm). Rake is a set deal as mentioned earlier by Paul and typically is not changed.(we do not need to go there)

When speaking of a center hub or center point steering front end as is common on a HPS rig it is best to speak in terms of caster as it is measured in degrees. The steering head angle is no longer directly related to the front end geomettry in the former manner. It is only acting as a pivot point with a center hub steering.

Caster and trail are not really the same as they are arrived at differently but they do provide the same function which is the self centering effect of the steering.
There is more to all of this but these are the basics.
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Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

2007
I.S.O.K Sidecar RON-DEE-VOO III ..
First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
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