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legalr
Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 163 Location: Wallingford, Vermont
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:48 pm Post subject: Trail (Nachlauf) |
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The subject of "trail" came up in a discussion of "Steerning Dampers" and we started to get into it prettty good so I thought I would look through my copies of Motorrad-Gespanne to see the different trail values that were being used on modern sidecars that are depicted each month. Here is what I found.
"Some Examples of Trail on Modern Sidecar Rigs
As Shown in Motorrad-Gespanne"
Bike~ Sidecar~ Trail in millimeters
BMW K1200RS~ Subsonic~ 30mm
BMW R1200GS~ EZS-Munro~ 45mm
Honda GL 1800~ Hechard/Ruko~ 40mm
BMW K1200LT~ Kentech Royal~ 50mm
Suzuki VX 800~ EML~ 40mm
Suzuki GSX 1400~ Stoye RT~ 35mm
BMW K1200GT~ Dedome~ 45mm
Honda X4 Vmax~ Stern/EZS~ 70mm
BMW R80GS~ Ladakh~ 30mm
BMW R1150R~ Stern/EZS~ 65mm
Yamaha TDM 900~ Tornado~ 25mm
Suzuki SV-1300~ Stern RX-Z/EZS~ 60mm
Harley V-Rod~ Mobec~ 74mm
Zeus~ Side-Bike~ 40mm
BMW R1100R~ Dedome~ 45mm
BMW R1100R~ Armec Sidewinder~ 127mm [original BMW forks]
BMW R1200C~ Armec Bullet~ 86mm [original BMW forks]
Yamaha Vmax~ Armec Tremola II~ 34-60mm [Armec upsidedown forks]
Suzuki GFS 1200 Bandit~ Armec Tremola I~ 30mm
Honda CBR 1100 XX~ EML Speed~ 25mm
According to "Das Neue Handbuch fur Gespannfahrer" trail values most commonly employed in modern sidecar rigs range from 10 to 50 mm. I have the Gespanne 2001 Katalog and can reference many specific sidecars and bikes for trail values. There are too many to list them all here, but I would be glad to look if anyone has a question.
My own rigs, BMW R1150R and BMW K1200RS have 35mm and 41.4mm trail respectively. I have tried 16mm trail and found it uncomfortable at highway speeds or over rough or imperfect road surfaces. It steered very lightly and very quickly, which was delightful, but all things considered it was not to my liking. I am comfortable with 41.4mm at all highway speeds and over any road surface. From the manufacturer my K1200RS had 124.46mm trail. So you can see that my LLF has reduced that by83.06mm for easier steering.
What is the correct amount of trail? That is entirely subjective. One size does not fit all as can readily be seen from the above list. |
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Powersl@ve
Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Posts: 40 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Honda CBR 1100 XX~ EML Speed~ 25mm |
And fully adjustable I might ad. Most people never adjust it, I did'nt with my previous rig but with the next one I am going to experiment it.
EML's testdriver drives 0 mm naloop (Trail (Nachlauf)), but it seems he is nuts _________________ Bigger, Better, Busa |
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legalr
Joined: 30 Jan 2005 Posts: 163 Location: Wallingford, Vermont
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2005 7:04 pm Post subject: Trail (Nachlauf) |
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Quote: | EML's testdriver drives 0 mm naloop (Trail (Nachlauf)), but it seems he is nuts Laughing |
In a controlled setting I would like to drive one with 0 mm trail. My guess is that it would be spooky, but maybe I'm wrong? |
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swaybar2002
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 Posts: 380 Location: Central Pa.
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 4:10 am Post subject: |
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Colby's Formula I sidecar racer has zero static trail. He said he is going to change it. Clocked at over 170 at road america with zero trail ... someone has to be very attentive to what he is driving and be sure not to sneeze.
click here: http://tinyurl.com/3lkgy
Claude _________________ Claude Stanley
Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/
2007
I.S.O.K Sidecar RON-DEE-VOO III ..
First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming |
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Bandit Bill
Joined: 31 Jan 2005 Posts: 202 Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:10 am Post subject: |
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Wow, thanks for that data - it had the Bandit listed there
I was looking at my baseline trail being 1 1/2" in my design, which is 38 mm, vs Armecs 30 mm setup .. mines going to be adjustable anyway, but good to know. (according to my plumb bobbing this weekend, The Bandit has 5.5" trail, stock ) _________________ Homebrew '99 Suzuki Bandit 1200 / '88 Hannigan Comet
'78 Honda CT70 playbike
http://www.chairintheair.ca |
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