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is wider better?
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 977
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Carl, Welcome to the forum.
Im not sure how they build F1 Race type sidecars.
Maybe someone with some racing background could help with this one.
All I can say is how I built mine.
Both front and rear tires are in line, and sidecar wheel is 15 forward of the rear and has about of toe in.
There is not much you do to modify the rear wheel, with out massive reconstruction and fabrication.
My rear wheel fits inside the stock swing arm with about 3/16 of an inch clearance.
I am thinking, if you start moving around the front or rear tire from left to right, the rig would try to correct itself (straighten itself out) going down the road.
Resulting in excessive tire wear.
I have only logged about 4,000 miles on mine and the tires look almost, kind of, new. Well pretty good anyway.
Not sure how much it would improve handling, if at all.
I dont think one or two inches either way would make that much difference.
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
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www.Yankee-Engineering.com
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IanJ



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more you move things into a trike-like trangle, the more evenly-stable the rig should be in right and lefthand corners. I would think that making a triangle like a trike (steering wheel forward and center, trailing wheels offset to either side of the steering wheel) with just one wheel driven would accentuate the effect of acceleration pulling towards the sidecar, though.
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Paul



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 182
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SRADkneedragger wrote:
F-1 racing sidehacks(although more car than motorcycle)have the front wheel(hub center steer) offset to the sidecar side by what appears to be several inches.?


F1 racing rules require that the two "motorcycle" wheels be in line, and must NOT be offset:

1. A sidecar is a three-wheeled vehicle leaving two tracks with only the rear wheel driving. The two wheels of the motorcycle shall form a single line track, not more than 75mm out of line, track center to track center. (53.07)

The engine must also be in line with the motorcycle wheels.
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SRADkneedragger



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 15
Location: West Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This stuff is all new to me. I have a set of blue prints that Frank R (thank you very much Mr R! Big Grin ) sent me and they show an offset to the rig side in the front wheel. I just assumed they were F-1 blue prints.

I have deleted all deminsions from these as they are not mine and out of concerns for someone elses intelecctual property. Sorry , But you should still get the idea
My intention is to build a racing style sidecar rig but retain motorcycle wheels on the bike. Although I thought a 200 to 300 series rear tire would LOOK nice. This presents alot of problems with the drive chain,,, unless you just leave the drive side alone and modify the opposite side.
The non drive side could be moved outboard of the centerline of the bike quite easily, leaving the drive side in the stock position(Basically the same overall effect as the offset front wheel). Although I don't know what effect this would have on the handling of the overall rig. All in all alot of work and exspense for nothing more than appearence.
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Paul



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 182
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:11 pm    Post subject: LCR Reply with quote

As long as the deleted dimension is 75mm or smaller it's legal.

A LCR is certainly F1 legal - arguably the best F1 sidecar out there. (Arguably the best street sidecar out there, too, but you'd have to give up "comfort" as part of the equation).
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 977
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Carl,
Why do you want to keep motorcycle wheels?
Thinking Confused
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
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SRADkneedragger



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 15
Location: West Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically just out of simplicity for the start I would like to get the project up and riding and then maybe later go the flat wide tire wheel route. I was hoping to ride this thing this summer and then kind of make it a work in progress from there.
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hear ya.
Even when it's finished, there is something else to do.
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
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2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
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SRADkneedragger



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 15
Location: West Texas

PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I scored a 2005 Yamaha FZ1 complete frontend(forks, triples, wheel, brakes) So this is going on the front of my 1973 sidehack rig. Stronger forks stronger brakes and MAYBE clipon bars later.
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Bandit Bill



Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 202
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SRADkneedragger wrote:
Basically just out of simplicity for the start I would like to get the project up and riding and then maybe later go the flat wide tire wheel route. I was hoping to ride this thing this summer and then kind of make it a work in progress from there.


It's the most progressive way to do it.. keep in mind what you want your final design to be, and plan backwards from there. It's taken me three years so far..

Bear in mind, FZ1 forks will still flex .. they simply aren't designed for the lateral cornering forces of a faster rig .. consider that an interim step on the way to a final design (IMHO Very Happy }
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bandit Bill WROTE:
It's the most progressive way to do it.. keep in mind what you want your final design to be, and plan backwards from there.

This is true and a good system but the key is to carefully evaulate what the first portion of Bill's quote says..i.e. "keep in mind what you want your final design to be". The idea of 'building on' a stock bike is fine but only to a point. It depends greatly on how radical the final project design is to be. If you are contemplating the construction of a F-1 type street going rig it will be worlds apart from a modified street rig. We have all thought of sidcars as a one wheel device mounted to a motorcycle. This is fine but only to a point. Once we get into the upper end of the field the progression in an effort to obtain superior handling qualities begins to move farther and farther from anything related to a solo bike. The F-1 rigs, to me, are no more a motorcycle than an indy car is. They are purpose build sidecar rigs which attempt to utilize all the suspension advantages possible within the rules they are governed by. On the street we actually have less rules to go by in a way . We can add width, we can offset wheels etc etc. The sky is the limit. If one wanted a f-1 type street rig he may be ahead of the game to purchase a used racer and go 'backwards' from ther to make it street leagl. I have been trying to get colby to do this to his F1 for two years now..lol.
Even what we see ar HPS rigs today are quite far from a steet bike. I think we will see more and more purpose built rigs in the future with less and less motrcycle orientation to them. Face it, even now most HPS rigs are progressing to a point where they are only a motorcyle in the engine and rear end areas. The frame is basically a huge motormount and structure made to support the suspension members used.
How far will it go? Hard to say but it will be interesting.
As a sidenote...last year I had the opprotunity to ride a conventional type sidecar rig based on an almost stock sportbike. That thing was a ton of fun. Maybe not as fast as the big tire rigs but there is a lot to be said for how high one's fun meter can go when you can corner sideways at will Smile
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2007
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