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Powering the sidecar wheel

 
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irondad01



Joined: 26 Jul 2005
Posts: 7
Location: Osceola Mills,PA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:54 am    Post subject: Powering the sidecar wheel Reply with quote

I never saw this mentioned anywhere but I was thinking one of the problems with steering a rig is the outside wheel has to go faster than the inside one. So when doing a left turn you have to physically speed the sidecar up with the handlebars. And when doing a right you have to hold it back. There is a big difference on my bike between running empty and with a heavy passenger. Some curves it's possible to use the throttle or brakes to help but not always. If the sidecar wheel was powered somehow with a diff. between it and the bike wheel I think life would be much easier. The old Ural Sportsman was set up this way but I never rode one so I don't know how it worked. One problem would be flying the sidecar as the wheel would get all the power and spin very fast until it set down.
Just thought I'd try to get the gears turning to come up with some ideas.
Carl
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Carl, welcome to the forum.
Please correct me if Iím wrong, I think, not sure, that the Urals and clones that had a driven sidecar wheel do not have a differential.
They have a live axel that makes the sidecar wheel spin the same speed as the rear wheel.
Good for traction in the snow and off road but I would think that would make things worse for what we are doing.
It would make the rig want to go straight and hard to turn.
All I can think of, is driving a car with a spool in the rear end, the car jumps and jerks around when trying to turn left or right.
I think the same would happen with a limited slip differential.
Although it doesnít happen that often, Wink the sidecar wheel does come off the ground, that would do exactly what you said with just a differential.
Possibly someone with a sprint car or racing background could offer up an opinion.
Maybe if we could get some thing computer controlled? Cool
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
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arbalest



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 92
Location: Windham

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:04 pm    Post subject: driven sidecar wheel Reply with quote

Bill, I have a 2wd Neval powered by a 800cc BMW engine. The Neval(Dnepr) 2wd system is full time 2wd with a differential. No, I cannot fly the chair for the reasons inherent in way a differential works, but the rig goes down the road very well. It doesn't pull in either direction, and I can drive quite aggressively (relatively speaking) with it. I generally drive without a passenger OR ballast in the chair. I will admit that the rig handles better with someone in the chair, but I think it handles very well under any conditions. I drove it all winter last year (in Maine), and never had a problem.
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just did some quick research on Urals, apparently they are available with and with out a differential, full time and optional two wheel drive.
Have you driven in the snow, if so, have you ever experienced one wheel slipping and not able to get traction?
Or in an off road situation?
In a car with single track differential they say to lightly apply the parking brake to transfer power to the wheel that is not slipping.
How would you overcome this situation? Question
What is the benefit of having two wheel drive with a differential? Confused
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
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arbalest



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 92
Location: Windham

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:12 pm    Post subject: driven sidecar wheel Reply with quote

Bill, as a practical matter, the only advantage that I can see is that it makes it easier to learn to drive a sidecar rig. After driving the rig and getting experienced with the way it handles, I find myself driving a little more aggressively. Because of the differential I can't (shouldn't) fly the chair. I believe this limits the things I could do with the rig. I drove the rig in snow quite often. I haven't been off road with it. I have never experienced the lost traction one would expect with an ordinary differential. I don't pretend to know why. The rig does great donuts on a slippery parking lot, in either direction.
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: driven sidecar wheel Reply with quote

arbalest wrote:
Bill, as a practical matter, the only advantage that I can see is that it makes it easier to learn to drive a sidecar rig. After driving the rig and getting experienced with the way it handles, I find myself driving a little more aggressively. Because of the differential I can't (shouldn't) fly the chair.

I never thought of that. Smile

arbalest wrote:
I believe this limits the things I could do with the rig. I drove the rig in snow quite often.

I have not driven in the snow, I'm a wuss. Worship

arbalest wrote:
The rig does great donuts on a slippery parking lot, in either direction.

Cool Laughing
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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt that without a diferential the tyhing woul dwant to push the front end. With a differential if th esidecar wheel lifted ti woul dspin, forward progress would cease , the wheel would come back down and then the thing would move forward again.
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Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

2007
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First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
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bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmcsheehy wrote:
What is the benefit of having two wheel drive with a differential? Confused

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Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
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swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe some type of locker or limited slip differential?
Think I will have to wait and see one of the two wheel drive deals dust off some of the present stuff in the twisties before being willing to deal with the brain cramp involved in this one Laughing
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Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

2007
I.S.O.K Sidecar RON-DEE-VOO III ..
First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
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