An international forum for people interested in modern high performance road going sidecars. Forum Index An international forum for people interested in modern high performance road going sidecars.

 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Brakes
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    An international forum for people interested in modern high performance road going sidecars. Forum Index -> HPSidecar Technical Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are some comments from the internet that may be interesting. The link at the bottom has some good info as well:

**Once you understand the cause of a fading brake pedal you will see how easy it is to avoid it in the future. Brake pedal fade can occur for two primary reasons. The most common is the over heating of the brake fluid to a point where the fluid actually boils and turns to gas. The other common scenario is the over heating of the brake pad friction material to a point where it simply disintegrate from the pad backing plate.

**All brake pads contain some organic (living) materials. Resins that bind pad compounds together are organic - petro-chemical products. As these overheat the resins revert to gas and cause the pads to “aquaplane” on a gas film which is called fade. Some pads only fade once or twice and then settle down (Green fade or bedding in fade). Other, cheaper pads suffer from continual dynamic fade, sometimes at surprisingly low temperatures.

**Brake fade occurs anytime the brake temp rises beyond the effective operating temps of the brake pad. Excessive heat can do major damage ranging from a spongy pedal to a snapped brake rotor. The most common type of fade occurs when the pad itself over heats and looses its ability to slow the rotor. If the pad temperature gets hot enough of it transfers heat to the fluid and can exceed the boiling point of the fluid causing air bubbles to form in the lines. This causes a spongy pedal and a decrease of pressure the piston can apply to the pad. This situation gets worse because the pad must be in contact with the rotor for a longer period to get the same stopping power. So basically the best way to avoid brake fade without changing any hardware to apply harder brake pressure for a shorter period of time. You want to apply VERY firm pressure for about a second or 2 then get off completely. Braking slowly for longer is worse then braking hard for less time when dealing with pad fade.

some good food for thought here too:
http://www.h-e-l.co.uk/HEL_Performance_Brake_Doctor_Brake_Fade.htm
_________________
Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

2007
I.S.O.K Sidecar RON-DEE-VOO III ..
First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Paul



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 182
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:31 pm    Post subject: Pads Reply with quote

bmcsheehy wrote:
I am currently using DP brand pads


Which compound? These are very similar to stock pads - sintered metal - and don't really have better stopping than stock. Take a look at the EBC organic pads, or something similar. They'll wear out faster, but stop a lot better.

Most manufacturers of pads make three compounds - standard street use, sport, and pure race compound. I'd stay away from the pure race ones, since many don't work at all until they heat up, and may not work well in the wet. But you obviously want more braking than the stock pads.

bmcsheehy wrote:

I am using fresh DOT 4 fluid, What’s the scoop with DOT 5.1? Do you think I should change it?


Well, it's spring - time to change it anyway, right?

DOT 5.1 is the most recent of the normal glycol-based brake fluids. (It is NOT the same as DOT 5, which is silicone based. You will ruin your brake system if you put DOT 5 in it. DOT 5.1 has a higher boiling point - at least 365 degrees F (DOT 3 is 284 degrees, DOT 4 is 311 degrees) so it will resist fade due to boiling much better. It's also thinner so it works better in ABS systems.

http://www.motorspot.com/DOT_5%5B1%5D.1_Brake_Fluid_8070_(GB).pdf

I'd say get a fresh bottle of good DOT 5.1 and flush your system well, and then see if your brakes work better. Then switch to a better set of pads.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
zentime



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 832
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul, thanks refrence info. I was wondering what the temp difference was between DOT 4 and DOT 5.1. I'm going to switch mine over to 5.1 before the start of the season.
_________________
CBR1100XX/EZS
1973 MotoGuzzi V7sport

will August ever come............
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2005 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anybody know where you can buy 5.1 brake fluid?
Been to auto parts store and a bike shop. They didn't stock it.
Banging your head against the wall.
_________________
Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bmcsheehy wrote:
Anybody know where you can buy 5.1 brake fluid?
Been to auto parts store and a bike shop. They didn't stock it.
Banging your head against the wall.


click here:
http://tinyurl.com/5h6de
_________________
Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

2007
I.S.O.K Sidecar RON-DEE-VOO III ..
First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Claude,

Question for anybody;

What about 600 racing fluid, wet boiling piont 421F.

5.1 brake fluid is only 375F.

Is 600 compatable with 3,4 & 5.1? Question
_________________
Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Paul



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 182
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:29 pm    Post subject: 600 fluid Reply with quote

Motul makes the 600 fluid also. They recommend against mixing it with any other fluid - which would mean that you'd better always bring a bottle along with you on a trip. It's supposed to be compatible with standard DOT 3/4 systems, but who knows. (It's also double the price of 5.1).

If your brake fluid is reaching over 375 degrees F on the street, then I think you should look into other solutions (and a good traffic lawyer).
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 600 fluid Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
If your brake fluid is reaching over 375 degrees F on the street, then I think you should look into other solutions (and a good traffic lawyer).


Laughing

Your right.
_________________
Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
bmcsheehy



Joined: 22 Jan 2005
Posts: 981
Location: Massachusetts USA

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the new 5.1 fluid today, whats the best way of changing it?
Should I drain all the fluid first to try and get every drop out? Question
I usually drain it all and struggle to get it bled again. Thinking
Buddies
_________________
Bill
High Performance Sidecaring... ...There is nothing "HACKED" about it.
2006 ZX-14 / HANNIGAN HP.
2011 Concourse / California Friendship III.
1936 Ford Fordoor Humpback
www.Yankee-Engineering.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Paul



Joined: 27 Jan 2005
Posts: 182
Location: Utah

PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on how you're bleeding the system. In any case, I'd never intentionally empty the system - it's way too hard to fill it up completely again.

If you do the traditional manual method, I'd empty out the master cylinder (an eyedropper and then a rag works well), and then just force new 5.1 fluid through the system until nice clean fresh fluid comes out the bleeder. (You'll end up forcing a fair bit of fluid through since the two will mix a little bit, but just keep going until pure clean fluid comes out).

If you're using a power bleeder the same would probably work, although I've never used one. Cool toys, though expensive.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
IanJ



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 52
Location: Seattle, WA, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I highly recommend getting a vacuum pump. You can get a hand-operated one (probably the most powerful thing you'd want to use on a motorcycle-sized braking system) for about US$30-40. With that, you can suck the old fluid out pretty easily, just keep the reservoir topped up. I've found with mine (Mity-Vac, about US$35 at the local auto parts store), if I give it a couple of good pumps, that's actually too much vacuum, and it'll slurp down all of a small bottle of fluid if I'm not careful. A vacuum pump like this also makes it easier to bleed the brakes, if you suspect you have air in the lines.
_________________
2006 Ninja 250
1982 Honda Goldwing/EML GT Hack
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
swaybar2002



Joined: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Central Pa.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2005 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those mity vacs suck..meaning they do work good!
Don't pump the inexpensive ones too much though as you can actually crack the container...
don't ask Embarassed
_________________
Claude Stanley

Founder: Internet Sidecar Owners Klub
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SCT/

2007
I.S.O.K Sidecar RON-DEE-VOO III ..
First full weekend in August!! Thursday through Sunday!!
Weikert, Pa ..more details coming
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    An international forum for people interested in modern high performance road going sidecars. Forum Index -> HPSidecar Technical Discussion All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group